FYI The Soil Nazis are trying to make organic soil only again

Just FYI the muppets are still trying to get there greedy monopoly.


wish this site allowed a sad react for this one… :frowning_face:

Don’t like the wording of your comment.

Well i don’t like that the same group of idiots keeps trying to take away aquaponics as an organic certification. If you don’t like it write your own post. No one else here seems to pay attention to this any more apparently and if it gets it attention then thats a good thing. Theres absolutely nothing offensive about this post you just have some major issues you yourself need to figure you.

I also highly suggest you look up Godwins law. Godwin's law - Wikipedia

Godwin’s law

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Godwin’s law, short for Godwin’s law (or rule) of Nazi analogies,[1][2] is an Internet adage asserting that as an online discussion grows longer (regardless of topic or scope), the probability of a comparison to Nazis or Adolf Hitler approaches 1.[2][3]

Promulgated by the American attorney and author Mike Godwin in 1990,[2] Godwin’s law originally referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions.[4] He stated that he introduced Godwin’s law in 1990 as an experiment in memetics.[2] Later it was applied to any threaded online discussion, such as Internet forums, chat rooms, and comment threads, as well as to speeches, articles, and other rhetoric[5][6] where reductio ad Hitlerum occurs.

In 2012, “Godwin’s law” became an entry in the third edition of the Oxford English Dictionary.[7] In 2021, Harvard researchers published an article showing the phenomenon does not occur with statistically meaningful frequency in Reddit discussions.[8][9]


Generalization, corollaries, and usage[edit]

There are many corollaries to Godwin’s law, some considered more canonical (by being adopted by Godwin himself)[3] than others.[1] For example, there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that, when a Hitler comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever made the comparison loses whatever debate is in progress.[10] This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin’s law.[11]

Godwin’s law itself can be applied mistakenly or abused as a distraction, diversion or even as censorship, when fallaciously miscasting an opponent’s argument as hyperbole when the comparison made by the argument is appropriate.[12] Godwin himself has also criticized the overapplication of the law, claiming that it does not articulate a fallacy, but rather is intended to reduce the frequency of inappropriate and hyperbolic comparisons. Godwin wrote that “Although deliberately framed as if it were a law of nature or of mathematics, its purpose has always been rhetorical and pedagogical: I wanted folks who glibly compared someone else to Hitler to think a bit harder about the Holocaust.”[13]

In December 2015, Godwin commented on comparisons to Nazism and fascism being made by several articles between Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump, saying: “If you’re thoughtful about it and show some real awareness of history, go ahead and refer to Hitler when you talk about Trump, or any other politician.”[14] In August 2017, Godwin made similar remarks on social media with respect to the two previous days’ Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, endorsing and encouraging comparisons of its alt-right organizers to Nazis.[15][16][17][18]

In June 2018, Godwin wrote an opinion piece in the Los Angeles Times denying the need to update or amend the rule. He rejected the idea that whoever invokes Godwin’s law has lost the argument, and argued that, applied appropriately, the rule “should function less as a conversation ender and more as a conversation starter.”[19]

Often used in jest. So relax.

Well, you seem to be agitated, strongly expressing your opinion on the topic. You’re lamenting the lack of attention and engagement of others, but by loading the discussion with your emotions I guess you’re probably deterring others from reacting.

Funny thing you’re mentioning Godwins law, which I encountered for the first time in the early nineties. Thanks for reminding me of the good old times of newsgroups, archie and telnet.

Speaking of Godwins law, may I quote from what you posted:

“… there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that, when a Hitler comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever made the comparison loses whatever debate is in progress.”

So by invoking the Nazis you were saying what?
The thread is closed and you concede defeat?

I remember that you sent me a collaboration offer not too long ago. Given your unprofessional demeanor in this thread I can assure you that I’d rather not seek a collaboration with you.

Anyway, back on topic :

I can not directly speak for the group fighting against organic certification of aquaponics. I don’t have any direct knowledge of the structures and motivations of this particular entity.

I do know however that in Germany the organic grower associations got together to discuss and publish their take on aquaponics and hydroponics and in the end they decided not to allow their label and marketing material for aquaponic products. These people are passionate about their products and about how we as a society produce food and how we take care of the environment. I would not call them greedy. Also no matter how much success we are going to have with aquaponics, we are always going to produce much much more food in soil. Aquaponic and hydroponic (Digesterponics, Antrhroponics, whateverponics) production methods are niche and are going to stay niche. In comparison the the complete agricultural production.

The official EU organic label is also not granted to aquaponic products, neither for the hydroculture, nor for the aquaculture.

But I am not really worried about this. Research shows that customer belief in labels of any sort is really low. In the realm of labels and certifications regionality ranged in the top group while the organic label was near the bottom. So we are not losing much if aquaponics can not be labelled organic.
So just label your products as “from the region”.

Also I think the organic associations actually have a point. We are growing our plants and animals in constructed environments, using a lot of not natural materials and relying a 100% on constant energy input. Also no one is kept from amending the process water with conventional nutrient supplements.

So while I do think aquaponics is a sound and sustainable system that can grow food with high reliabilty, I am not worried about not getting the “organic” label. For me aquaponics is not organic. And that is not a problem.

So while Godwin later argued that "the rule “should function less as a conversation ender and more as a conversation starter.” I am still simply tired of self-righteous people thoughtlessly blurting out and provoking no matter what.

That said, unless you adjust your conduct towards me, I 'd rather us not have any further conversation.
Thank you.

Ok first off you came to a post i made and complained. All i did was reply so again relax you clearly don’t even understand any of the context of the post probably because your German. If your offended because i called a very evil greedy group of people nazis then you need dedsensitivity training or just a joint or a stiff drink to chill out. Infact you should be able to buy some of my cannabis drinks in Germany before the end of the year or beginning of next year if you give me an address il be sure some makes it your way to make it up to ya.

No im trying to get people to pay attention to this issue. Click bait titles get people to pay attention in 2022.

And no godwins law can also be used ironically as seen in the last part of the wikipedia article ot highlight an issue that needs attention. Which is the context of this post. But chronic im offended syndrome is part of whats killing america right now but again you being german have no context on that.

Yes we know that the EU organic people have there head up there ass this has been a long an ongoing fight i myself have send paperwork to charlie or others for 2 of the sperate hearings in the US i know ALOT more on this topic than you probably thing i do hence why it needs to get attention that your long post helps get this topic.

They are not niche and should not stay a niche they are a better way to produce thats why you see it taking off in cannabis at least with the people who know what there doing.

This is a huge issue that would greatly effect many US producers so while thats great that you aren’t worried and it doesn’t effect you it very much does effect many people in this association who rely on organic labels to give them a market advantage.

So what if its a constructed environment it uses 18% of the water that soil does making it much more ecologically responsible than soil growing anywhere water is scarce.

Aquaponics is every bit as organic as soil infact you could argue its more organic because it uses much less water and is on average and this is from the paper from the last time this came up 168% more biodiverse than soil samples were. So theres just no reason not to give it an organic label OTHER THAN a few ultra greedy soil producers trying to force a monopoly again on soil production. its all about the $$$$$ and nothing to do with the science at all. That was proven at the last aquaponics organic court trial where charlie schooled them big time.

Dude you posted on my post not the other way around so if you don’t want to engage just don’t reply to my posts. But DM me an address il send you some cannabis drinks as soon as were allowed to start selling in Germany we make some killer drinks il send you a few.

You should be far more offended by the people trying to completely screw over those who want to take away aquaponics organic certification as many of these farms have spend hundreds of thousands of dollars or more to be compliant. Why should they loose all of that investment just because a few ignorant and uneducated cultish greedy soil farmers want a monopoly on production with absolutely no basis in science to back up there claims? Does that not bother you at all? Its sure as heck far more offensive than referring to an evil political party from a history long since past.